difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve

However, R12 refrigerants are still used as fire retardants in aircraft and submarines. If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). As per their results . It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Stopleak is also risky. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. It's actually a reaction with chlorine in the mineral oil that may have been absorbed and leftover from the old R-12. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. R134a. It is possible I have 10 ounces (250 ml) in the system. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. What is a T/C?4. Instead, top off R12 with R134a refrigerant. I'll put the relay on for that. The analysis focuses on Coefficient of Performance for . Also the new quick connect fittings for the high & low side. The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. When I compare parts, 93 uses one part number and 94 has a different part number. Biggest you can fit in there is best. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. Your old hoses of course will not fit. Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? | NSX Prime So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? If the water valve is not closing all the way you will have re-heating of the cabin air.The cabin blower was not exactly a powerhouse - it was rated at 200w. The oil used in R12 systems is not compatible with R134a refrigerant. #4. Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. The oil used in R12 and R134a are different and not compatible. The larger fitting goes on the discharge port and the smaller fitting goes on the suction line or compressor inlet / suction port. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. Amazon.com: 134a Valve Read on for more information about using automotive r134a in a refrigerator and vice versa. On this website we are addressing only R134a and not other suggested drop in replacements. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. How is the vent airflow?I would jumper the aux fan & check the performance. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? MB has specfic test parameters for performance, but you can always test at max load - doors open fan on highest speed.The oil overcharge looks like a parabolic curve. The butylcellusolve or the citrus solvent will dissolve the carcass in a few minutes. R12 or R134a - 928 Owners Club Forum evarporator, expansion valve plus flushing out the full system and replacing all the o rings. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. SO here's my question. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. Generally this works well for the whole system. Should I do the test again with the the aux fan jumpered? It will work and there will be very little, in any difference in performance.As Chick stated, the difference is only the gas used in the sensor tube. You do not want to exceed the systems high side recommendations. Generally you follow the refrigerant flow moving from connection to connection, component to component, and you sniff the a/c vents to check for evaporator leaks as well. Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. The substitute that we used for R-12 was the new HFC called R-134a. They can be mounted quite easy,and there is a mounting kit that helps to hang it. Could that be screwing up the systems performance?Anyway, when I installed the system, the new TXV (is that short for expansion valve?) Replace the drier with a drier that has a desiccant that is R134a compatible, use new R134a o-rings. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. I have just bought gauges. Energy usage: R134a is less efficient in cooling compared to R12. . When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. The cable is adjustable at the valve arm. Though - the valve for a 1991 says R12 on it, and for a 1994, it says R-134a. Stay home and grill your own steaks and stir your own martini. Then I'll put the ball valve in on the coolant and test it and see what we have. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. It may take a couple of tries to get things really clean.The laser is usually close on clean surfaces, but I prefer a T/C. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. Air Conditioning Expansion Valve R134a - R12 replacement kit Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. The flammables have hydrocarbons. With the knowledge of the differences, youll be able to draw a comparison between R12 vs R134a efficiency. I'm thinking of jumping the temp switch and leaving the fan on to see how it does. Electric fans do wear out. In short, NO! We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. The problem with these so called drop in replacements is that to properly handle them you may need dedicated equipment to identify the gas and evacuate it for proper disposal. Also called the orifice tube. Safe but sorry! Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. For instance at 25 F the pressure of R-12 is 24.6 PSI and the pressure of R-134a is 22.1 PSI. Jun 17, 2011. But R22 is almost equally damaging. . Use a drop light in the engine bay, and check the air path from the front of the car at night. The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums. However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. R134a requires a different oil. Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. Als nostres webs oferimOne Piece,Doctor Who,Torchwood, El Detectiu ConaniSlam Dunkdoblats en catal. Right now you know you have a bit too much, but with a CR4P compressor this is an insurance policy. I recommend replacing the expansion valve when you do the swap. 4.3 out of 5 stars 491. The best replacement for R134a is R1234yf, while R12 refrigerant replacement was R134a. R134a and water have the same abilities to change the state but R134a can do this more rapidly and at a much lower temperature than water. By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . Expansion Valves Catalog E-1, July 2012. On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. Thanks for the input. . System has been working fine for a year. How thermostatic expansion valves work | Danfoss Fitting a PF condensor is not rocket science, but it requires some planning. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. |. I have one can left, so maybe a plan can be made. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. Interestingly, theres one oil type that works perfectly with both types of refrigerants. If liquid refrigerant were to exit the evaporator. And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. A/C systems designed to use R-12 will cool best when charged with R-12 refrigerant. R134a vs. R12 - Griffiths The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. I am ordering new parts, and planning to convert my system to R-134a. The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. And yes - expansion valves sometimes need replacing if they are sticky - but a proper AC flush should eliminate the need for a new one if it's already in good condition. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. #19. Typically 5 to 6 ounces of a/c oil is adequate but this may vary depending upon the car. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. . However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. Please enter a valid email address for yourself. R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. This is 11F off the FSM performance graph - vent should be around 50F. Whether R134a performs as well as R12 in any given a/c system depends upon system components and the amount of R134a used. Crap! Then again, there are two different expansion valves. Besides, R134a refrigerant was manufactured after R12 was banned to help reduce the harshness of the old chemical (R12) on the ozone layer. Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. . Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. I used a full can of evap cleaner. R404a is a zeotropic blend with a temp glide , because of the mixture of 2 or more refrigerants. Large temperature difference between expansion valve inlet and outlet oReplace expansion valve Air . Different correction factors are applied to other refrigerants. And I already have so much time and money in this a/c project that I REFUSE to cut any corners as small as a TEV.It doesn't help that most people in the business (at least that I come in contact with, present company excluded, of course!) This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. If he is not in the garage fixing challenging mechanical problems, he is writing automotive repair guides, buyers guides, and car and tools comparisons. It was later found that R-134a had a very high Global Warming Potential, or GWP, number. Expansion valves are an active device, they regulate the flow of refrigerant to the evaporator depending on evaporator temperature. R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. The OEM spec is 2300 rpm @ 12.6v (engine stopped fully charged battery). The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. Effects of alternative refrigerants on the ejector dimensions for Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. A/C Expansion Valve Replacement Cost. It slowly gets warmer and warmer in the car, even at highway speeds. Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. They have no moving parts. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. First, differences in physical properties: 1, insoluble R12 compressor oil is used (to reduce the lubricant) 2, dissolved sealing materials are used (resulting in refrigerant leakage) 3, easy to damp (so easy to internal . Before landing on the debate of R134 vs R12 you should know that both R134a and R12 are AC refrigerants types used in refrigeration and air conditioning systems. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. I think so. 3) A/C Compressor Always On. Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. R134a requires the use of synthetic oil! Flushed, vacuumed etc. You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. Trinary Pressure Switch $ 39.99. Still, I have some simple green, so may as well give it a go. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate. Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. Very interesting! Plus, not releasing the chemical into the air is morally justifiable. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. The original rubber a/c hose lines in your car will leak out R12 through the hoses lining. Can I Use Automotive r134a in a Refrigerator | An Expert Guide What effect would it have on performance, if any? ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Production of R12 ceased in 1996, although it can still be reclaimed, purified, and resold, and small cans of New Old Stock R12 are still widely available on eBay and Craigslist. El maig de 2016, un grup damics van crear un lloc web deOne Piece amb lobjectiu doferir la srie doblada en catal de forma gratuta i crear una comunitat que inclogus informaci, notcies i ms. video clubhouse baseball; nick fairley draft profile; ben davis work pants You can use this space to go into a little more detail about your company. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. If your cars system has a sufficient condenser design and air flow to expel the greater amount of heat extracted by R134a, then by all means you should convert over when the time comes. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. Any ideas from the info above? Most importantly, the oil used in the plant must always be compatible with the refrigerant used. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). It's not just the poor performance - the cooling just stops working after a while. Nice to use new gadgets! R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. But R22 is almost equally damaging. As an example, let's say the R12 charge specification is listed at 2 lbs. gital control scheme. Please enter a password for your user account. Expansion Valve. The aux fan seems to be working fine - it switches on occassionally. Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. A discussion of the relationship between valve capacities and superheat set-tings can be found in Bulletin 10-9. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). Expansion Valve for R134a? | Team Chevelle My turn to LOL - greasiesel! I've straightened the fans I can and sprayed simple green on it, let it soak then hosed it down well. = R134a Charge Level. Putting R12 into a R134 vehicle | AnandTech Forums: Technology When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. . R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? So the steps involved are cleaning out the old oil, replacing all the O-rings, replacing the dryer, replacing the expansion valve, and converting the high and low side connectors from Schrader to quick connect valves. You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. Then, subtract that result by 0.25 pounds to get the proper amount of R134a charge. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. I don't have the FSM matrix handy for that 123.123, but a 123.133 shows a test rpm of 2,000 - and vent temps between 54f & 66f at 91f to 95f ambient.

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