358 norma magnum vs 35 whelen
My .375 H&H seemed quite adequate. Layne Simpson did an article on the comparison of the two and it was reprinted in Big Bore Rifles and Cartridge ISBN 1-879356-00-7. We owe a debt of gratitude to the engineers at the British firm of Holland & Holland; though it is lost to history who exactly designed the belted magnum cartridge, the .275 and .375 Holland & Holland Magnums were game changers. would follow that tradition. The company made its humble start in 1963in Gussago, Italywhen Giuseppe Pietta made a commitment to produce guns as authentic and true-to-original as possible. Included in that have been a whole bunch of deer, hogs and a bear or two. That year, Remington also brought out the Model 673 Guide Gun in .350 Rem Mag. Actual weight depends on subspecies, nutrition, and age, but 600 pounds is a good starting point for grownup bulls and twice the size of an unusually large deer. No, its not exactly easy on the shoulder, but its not terrible either. Released in 1908, the .350 Rigby Magnum is an entirely original design, with no parent cartridge. Real world, the Norma bitchslaps brown bears and moose as convincingly as the 375H&H. 35 Whelen. In the mid 70's I picked up a 358Norma. Like most of the children of the Holland & Holland parents, the .358 Norma uses its shoulder for headspacing, rather than the belt, as do the .375 and .300 H&H. . It was verry expensive to shoot, lots of powder and expensive bullets and brass. By Layne Simpson. By and large, we shooters seem to gravitate to the middle of the road; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity. A failed product is often said to be ahead of its time, which is usually just a polite way of saying nobody wanted to buy it. Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. .50 BMG. It was recovered in bits and pieces. Today the .35 caliber family, at least in North America, includes the .357 Magnum, .35 Remington, .356 Winchester, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. Kali Parmley of Gun Dog Magazine talks to George Thompson from Benelli USA about the new features from the Benelli line in 2023. The cartridge is closely related to the .308 Norma Magnum. I have become a 35 cal. The .358 has 24 percent more energy at the muzzle than the .300 Win. Im voting no. I believe it never will. Sadly, my favorite bullet diameter, the .35 caliber, doesnt even rate a blip on the American shooters radar screen. After ten years of not getting drawn I sold it it was too much gun for most of my hunting. So when it comes to penetrating thick hide and heavy bone, one could see where the .350 Rigby could benefit from a heavier bullet, say a premium 250-grain with a SD of .279. Perhaps thats how it should be, the masses rarely embrace true greatness. Remington currently lists a Model 7 rifle with a 20-inch barrel; todays version of the 600 in .350 Rem. That is quite a few cartridges considering that there is not a single best selling rifle cartridge in the bunch. Elk Venison and Root Vegetable Stew Recipe, Best New Thermal Optics from the 2022 SHOT Show, Venison Backstrap with Sweet & Spicy Peach Relish Recipe, Tested Tough - Modern Zeiss Sports Optics. With such a wide range of both cast and jacketed bullets available, and todays variety in powders, the .358 Norma has an embarrassment of riches when it comes to load possibilities. Its a flat shootermimicking the trajectory of a .30-06 with heavier bulletsand is fully capable as an all-around choice. Opening up a boltface on a standard action is NOT a difficult job for a decent gunsmith and does not affect the strength or viability of the action one WHIT. Years of development and pushing the limits of what is possible in a rifle optic have led up to this moment. Nosler offers the .350 Rem. can drive the same weight bullet a bit faster. Whelen would not. While most of the .35 caliber rifle cartridges are powerful medium bore numbers designed for use on large (CXP3) game like elk and moose, the most popular .35 caliber rifle cartridge is the .35 Remington. Griffin & Howe developed the semiwildcat .350 G&H based on the .375 H&H case, as well as pioneering the .35 Whelen. The cartridge would be championed by Denys Finch Hatton (of Out of Africa fame), John Pondoro Taylor and Pete Pearson, and would be used by Baron Bror von Blixen-Fineke as well. 35 whelen vs everything else - Mississippi Gun Owners Most rifle elk hunting is not like bowhunting during the bugling season. Sierras 225-grain spitzer boat-tail, designed for the .35 Whelen, is a stellar performer in the .358 Norma. At 300 yds., the .358 Norma impacts only 0.96" lower than the .300 Win. Mag. .35 Whelen - Wikipedia My 35 Whelen will run 250gr partitions at 2700 fps with power pro 2000 powder. .358 Norma brass is a snap to make from 338 Win Mag brass. Quite a difference! Have a .350 Rem Mag, building a .358 Win currently, would prefer to do the .358 Norma if possible but not sure if this action can handle it.Anyone? With the 250-grain bullet, it's better than the .30-06 on heavy game at close ranges. Shaw rifles 24-inch barrel. When chambered for cartridges such as the .243 Win., 6 mm Rem., .308 Win. it is one nice gun and made for tight places. The .35 Whelen is a powerful medium-bore rifle cartridge that does not require a magnum action or a magnum bolt-face. Also, the 35 Whelen will not do much that your 350 and 358 already do, if anything. Ruger made a few bolt-actions some years back, and Remington made rifles in the 700 Classic line, but they are long gone. The .358 is vastly underated as the Whelen. With a 200-grain bullet at 2460 f.p.s., it is a heavy-hitter on whitetails. Not necessarily top dollar everything. 358 norma mag is a rarer bird but as I understand fire forming 300 win mag. Introducing the Veracity PH from Burris, the perfect combination of reliability, quality, and technology delivering a simple aiming solutiona tool for the hunter that just works. This raises the obvious question: Why, with so many modern cartridges around of more or less equal power, chambered in readily available rifles, is there this lingering interest in, and loyalty to, the .358 Norma? Mag. and .35 Rem., it was an excellent woods rifle for hunting whitetails. For the next year, comparisons were inevitable between Johanssons Hammer of Thor and the .358s powerful 250-grain bullet. The classic .350 Rigby Magnum load pushes a .358-inch diameter 225-grain bullet to a muzzle velocity of 2625 fps for 3,440 ft.-lbs. is on the threatened list, this one is on a path to extinction. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. The experimentation with the H&H cases, first by Weatherby and later by Winchester and Remington, certainly changed the way we hunted and made our purchases; magnum mania definitely took root. Today we have better bullets than when I was a kid. In the shooting sports we call that reaction recoil or "kick." 200-grain bullet to almost 2500 f.p.s. Its a great gun for moose and elk, bear and boar, and for bison as well. Don't like Rugers much had my fill of them and now they are gone down the road. On those gray, moody November days when I am feeling blue I take my Remington Model 141 pump-action rifle in .35 Rem. Here the elk offers hunters an advantage because the vital zone, like body size, is at least twice that of any deer. Make no mistake, the .30-06 is a powerful cartridge, but it doesnt beat you to death and can be built in the seven- to eight-pound range. Hunting Shack .35 Whelen N/A Centerfire Rifle Ammo was simply a .308 Win. An earlier Western Cartridge load delivered 2,660 fps, which I suspect is closer to the truth. But in my experience, if you can cover that 300-yard window with confidence youre in good shape. No matter if its books, art or hunting cartridges, its only those with a deep understanding of the subject who can fully understand the greatness often buried in obscurity. In 1965 Remington took it to the next level with the introduction of the Model 600 Magnum Carbine. However, the small bore cartridges from .24 to .32 caliber have proven quite reliable on these smaller animals, so I am not going to argue that anyone needs a .35 to hunt CXP2 class game. On June 26, 1959, Sweden's Ingemar Johansson demolished Floyd Patterson in the third round of their first heavyweight title fight in New York. Well, it betters the velocity of the .35 Whelen by at least 200 fps, much the same as the .338 Winchester Magnum does to the .338-06. 358 Norma Magnum | AfricaHunting.com So if you have a .375 (or larger) and a yen to take it elk hunting, be my guest. .35 Whelen: The Poor Man's Magnum - Big Game Hunting Blog Ive seen many elk taken cleanly with a .270 Winchester, and my own longest shot on an elk was on a big New Mexico bull at 400 yards using a .270 Winchester with a 150-grain Nosler Partitionone step and down. The .300 Rem. from my E.R. Why cant we love the .35? Of course, not all .35-caliber cartridges approach greatness. The .357 Magnum revolver cartridge has also gained considerable popularity as a combination rifle/pistol cartridge and lever action rifles for the .357 Magnum sell pretty well. when fired in a 7.5 pound rifle. Kali Parmley, Editor-in-chief of Bakccountry Hunter speaks with Bret Maffet of Franchi Firearms to discuss the all new Momentum All Terrain Elite. Mag.They have almost identical case capacity, but the .358 Norma Mag. Subscriber Services. Your rifle is your most important hunting tool, and knowing how to properly clean and store it when hunting season comes to a close is critical in keeping it in tip-top shape. Today, rifles can be made very light, but that can also be overdone because light rifles are whippy and hard to control when youre out of breath and have to settle in for a quick shot. The body of the .350 Magnum measures 0.517 inches at the base, smaller than the 0.589-inch base of the .416 Rigby. The .350 Magnum has a case length of 2.742 inches, and an overall cartridge length 3.44 inches, so it will feel at home in a magnum-length receiver. The 35 whelen and 358 winchester were the two I was torn between. crying, My kingdom for a rifle.. Too bad Ingemar Johansson was not so well equipped. While the American mainstream wont accept the .35, they are not unloved. The recent introduction of a Hornady LeverEvolution factory load for the .35 Remington has usefully improved its ballistics. 358 Norma runs 250gr partitions at 2810 with Norma 204 powder. Moving down a notch and comparing the .35 Whelen (250 grain bullet at a MV of 2400 fps) to the .30-06 (220 grains at 2410 fps), which have nearly identical case capacity, we find that the optimum game range (OGW) on 1000 pound animals is 10 yards for the .30-06 and 100 yards for the .35 Whelen. The parent of this cartridge is the .30-06 Springfield, which is necked-up to accept a bullet diameter of .358 in (9.1 mm).This cartridge is more powerful than its parent, especially in killing power on large game. In an age of ultra-specializatio in every field, and especially rifles, such versatility is almost an anachronism. Among my own favorites for the .358 Norma are the Nosler Partitions in both 225 and 250 grains, Swift A-Frames (225, 250, 280) and various Woodleighs, including the unique 310-grain Weldcore. With todays interest in long-range shooting, big scopes are in, but powerful scopes add weight. It is easy to forget that the .358 bore comes in an extremely varied range of twist rates from 1:16 to 1:12. Why the .35 Rem. These work, but my thinking has changed over the years. Mag. If we compare the .300 Win. He never questioned the adequacy of his .270 for elk, nor do I, but he was also a lifelong .30-06 fan and privately conceded its superiority for elk-sized game. They truly were ahead of their time, as they were short magnums back when being a short magnum wasnt cool. Norma offers factory ammunition, E.R. Its said that the French used it in World War I, but it probably didnt see much action. The .358 Norma Magnum, like the .358 Shooting Times Alaskan, generates a considerable amount of energy, but due to the caliber restrictions for dangerous game of most of the African countries, it falls shy of the markthe .375-inch bore is minimum for many countries. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. Norma loads their 250-grain Oryx bullet to this velocity, and as the rear portion of the bullet is bonded, it will give an excellent blend of expansion and penetration. For example, take the most powerful of the factory standardized .35's, the .358 Norma Magnum. The .358 Norma Magnum, like the .358 Shooting Times Alaskan, generates a considerable amount of energy, but due to the caliber restrictions for dangerous game of most of the African countries, it falls shy of the markthe .375-inch bore is minimum for many countries. .358 Norma or .35 Whelen - 24hourcampfire bruce. You know the kind with the locking bolt. Honestly, the concept of being overgunned is somewhat mystifying to me, provided you can place the shot. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. From limited experience of loading for two different 358 Norma Magnum rifles (a Schultz & Larson Model 65 and a Custom Sako AV) I used to neck up new Winchester 338 Win. The .351 WSL did grab a bit of fame, first as a popular rifle for prison guards and then as one of the rifles used to punch a lot of holes in Bonnie and Clydes automobile (although that accolade is in question). Synthetic wins over laminate because laminates, strongest of all, are also heaviest. Frankly, I would not want to be without them. Contributor Brad Fenson takes to the grill, to cook up some delicious venison burgers. You bet they worked! From there, you can work up until you find a load that gives you the accuracy and velocity you want. Contributor Brad Fenson takes to the grill, to cook up some delicious venison burgers. In any mass-production rifle, either the .375 or .338, or both, will be found as a standard chambering. compare 338/06 vs 338 win, and 35 whelen vs 358 norma vs 358 alaskan (stw) loaded to same pressure. .358 Norma Magnum - BallisticStudies.com I am also looking at building a 358 Norma Mag on a model 110 Savage action, formerly a 300 Win mag, and start from scratch with the stock ( bedding and pillar) and make it a tolerable shooter even if a bit heavy. They are a little short initially and after two firings they were just fine. In Johanssons case, disdain for serious training left him vulnerable when the superbly conditioned Patterson came back a year later, gave him a dazzling boxing lesson and reclaimed the title. All Rights Reserved. In the years since, the .35 Rem. Recoil was completely manageable, and it inspired me to begin the journey of having my own .350 Rigby rifle built. The most popular cartridges for hunting and even target shooting begin and end with the thirties. The .350 can drive a 250 grain bullet to a MV of 2500 fps. X-Vision Optics long-range ImpactThermal Scope (TS300) boasts a 640 x 480 thermal sensor that can detect big game well past 3,000 yards. The rivalry between the .338-inch and .358-inch bore diameters has a considerable history; both topped out at 300 grains (at one point in time in history), and both have a lower end of 180 grains. Heres a detailed look at each step of the process. Avoid quick-opening bullets, especially match bullets; instead, choose controlled-expansion designs intended for hunting larger game. The rifle, cartridge, and bullet must be capable of handling that one opportunity. For the handloader, as the accompanying table demonstrates, the .358 Norma Magnum provides an almost unbelievable range of possibilities, from loads light enough for gallery shooting to heavy enough. The .358 Win. But there is another Rigby cartridge, vastly overlooked even among rifle cranks, but which was at one time as popular as the .375 H&H Magnum: the .350 Rigby Magnum. Wolfe Publishing Company | 2180 Gulfstream Suite A | Prescott, AZ 86301. of muzzle energy. Either way, the Newton is the unbelted twin of the .358 Norma. An elk is bigger than anything most deer hunters have encountered, but theres still a variance; a cow for the freezer isnt much bigger than a very large deer, but a mature bull elk is different. These include some of my favorites, such as the .358 Winchester and .45-70. Where the .338 Winchester drives its 250-grain bullet to 2650 fps, the .358 Norma beats that figure by 100 fps or so, delivering over 4,200 ft.-lbs. For this reason, anyone acquiring a .358 Norma should start low with every load and work up slowly and carefully. The Swedish firm of A.B. Thanks for any thoughts. I have built all 3 several times for various customers and owned both the 358 Norma and the 9.3X62. To reach the .300 mark, youd need a 270-grain bullet (the North Fork and Woodleigh bullets come immediately to mind), but stabilization becomes an issue in the slower twists, and thats long been a problem in .35-caliber barrels. At 400 yds., the .358 Norma impacts 3.1 inches lower than the .300 Win. Honestly, Ive taken as many elk with the .30-06 as with any other cartridge, and the farthest at 350 yards was no problem. Size aside, American elk are very tough creatures. The ammunition hung on a while longer, but eventually Big Green abandoned her babies and stopped making both cartridges. Looking for previous installments of our "Behind the Bullet" series? The barrel is a full 22 inches, like it always should have been, but the foolish design with the huge shark fin front sight turned hunters off, and it was dropped. And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. Mark Bansner is making one for me: synthetic stock on a left-hand Sako action. I rely on, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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Shorter and more common than the magnum-length receiver needed for the .375 and .300 Holland & Holland Magnum, the Winchester Model 70s and Remington Model 721s gave a new level of performance when chambered for the new magnums. Three rivals: (1) .338 Winchester Magnum, (2) .358 Norma Magnum and (3) .375 H&H. Pet Loads and Handloader are registered trademarks of Wolfe Publishing Company. The .35 Whelen is accurate, hits hard, penetrates deep, shoots flat and recoils mildly. The .35 Whelen has a relatively simple design: it's a .30-06 Springfield case necked up to use .358 instead of .308 bullets (the exact opposite of the .270 Winchester in other words). My 35 Whelen will run 250gr partitions at 2700 fps with power pro 2000 powder. It was introduced in the bolt-action Model 70 in which it was trustworthy, but boring. With cast bullets, A-5744 and Trail Boss are usually the best choices, although H-4895 is a good powder for midvelocity hunting loads. 35 whelen vs 358 norma mag vs 9.3 x 62 - 24hourcampfire .358 Norma Magnum - Wikipedia Out of stock View Details . Original Schultz & Larsens had substantial freebore to keep pressures down, and Normas specifications for the cartridge called for it. The .350 Rem. Customer experience was, and still is, the primary focus, a key to the firms longevity and success. Head to the range this week with American Rifleman staff as they discuss a trim little repeater from Savage Arms that comes chambered for the .22 WMR cartridge. But when Winchester chambered the .358 the following year in its unique lever-action, the Model 88, it became a really interesting cartridge. This load uses a 200 grain Flex-Tip spitzer bullet and delivers a MV of 2225 fps and ME of 2198 ft. lbs. Today, it is strictly a custom proposition unless one of the original rifles chambered for it can be found. Follow along to see exactly how. The Remington Model 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge it birthed, was just such a product. My vote is for the .35 Whelen. Also H&R 1871, Inc., offered single-shot rifles in .35 Whelen from 1994 to 1996. I did secure properly head stamped Norma cases thinking we'd need them going over into the Yukon (no one ever checked). Of the bullets used, several performed extremely well, including the Bear Claw and a Nosler 250-grain Partition. Nils Kvaleone of the chief designers at Normahad experimented with a shortened .300 H&H case, necked to hold 8mm bullets, with the rim turned down to match the 8x57 rim diameter. In a letter written to friend Townsend Whelen during early 1920s, Leslie Simpson-- one of the first Americans to become a professional hunter in Africa--opined that the hunting world needed a .35 caliber cartridge . Meanwhile, the .358 Norma fizzled, for lack of a better term, because rifles were not readily available, ammunition was expensive and hard to get, and it found itself in direct competition with one of the great American cartridges of the twentieth century, Winchesters .338 Magnum. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. as a way to boost the power of the Model 94 lever-action rifle. It is capable of driving a. The .35 Whelen is a necked up medium bore wildcat cartridge that was created by necking up a .30-06 Springfield case which is famously overpowered for the 30-caliber bullet it propels. The .25 Rem., .30 Rem. Can this be made into a .358 Norma Mag or must I do a .35 Whelen. The quest for an acceptable .35 has inspired such impotent wastes as the .35 Winchester Self Loader, once labeled a candidate for the title: Worlds Most Useless Center-Fire Rifle Cartridge.. I'm sending my 270 tikka off to JES rebore to get it punched out to 35 whelen. Thought about that 375 Ruger but nah. The Remington Model 673 Guide Rifle was chambered in .350 Rem. As Ive said, I like mediums, such as the unpopular 8mm Remington Magnum and the faster .33s. So are the .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. Where does the .358 Norma sit, in comparison to the more popular cartridges in its class? Mag. Mag.-all with a bigger, heavier bullet that will punch a bigger hole and penetrate deeper. The M700 has been a popular action for building a rifle in .358 STA, a wildcat based on the 8mm Remington Magnum. Essentially the .338 Winchester Magnum necked up to hold .358-inch bullets, the .358 Norma Magnum made all sorts of sense to a hunter in pursuit of large game, such as elk, moose and the great bears of the north. is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. The .350 Rigby Magnum is, in the words of veteran Professional Hunter Robin Hurt, a perfect caliber to hunt lion and leopard. With a few exceptions, most African countries require a minimum of .375-caliber cartridges for thick-skinned dangerous game like Cape buffalo and elephant, and that makes sense in most instances. What keeps it alive? From the .35 Winchester (1903), .35 Remington (1906) and .351 Winchester Self-Loading (1907) to the later .358 Winchester (1955) and .350 Remington Magnum (1965), there has always been at least one .35-caliber cartridge in use. 35 whelen vs 358 norma mag vs 9.3 x 62 - 24hourcampfire This list gives some idea of the .358 Normas status today: Those rifles rarely seem to come on the market. Particularly when you consider that every one of those newer short magnum cartridges burns more powder to achieve less killing power than the .350 Rem. ), but with considerably less recoil. Folks who live in elk country may consciously seek a cow for the freezer. And the hunter must have full confidence in his or her choice. My favorite hunting round. I believe in quality optics, but quality and magnification are not synonymous. The .35-caliber cartridges usually top out at 250 grains, though if a 300-grain bullet at a slightly faster twist rate were employed, it would certainly be in the same class as the .375 Holland & Holland. 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